recirculating water for sparge

monty1
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recirculating water for sparge

Post by monty1 »

I'm currently using a 10 litre pot for BIAB, so I do partial mashes and top up with cold water in the fermenter. I want to move to being able to do a full mash in one go - so am looking at something like the electrim bin to heat up a full 5 gallon
https://www.hopshopuk.com/mashing-equip ... p-456.html

As sparging would require a separate source of hot water, could I actually just pop a hose on the tap and recirculate the water to flush out some extra sugar from the grain. I know that sparging isn't entirely necessary with biab - but i want to get everything i can out the grain.

On a similar note - does getting the PID version really warrant an extra thirty quid? Or is the analog thermostat close enough?

Ta,

Iain
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EckersKlein
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by EckersKlein »

I reckon you'd get better extraction efficiency if you sparged with fresh 75°C water rather than a recirc. If you have to add water to the boil anyway, you might as well run that water through your mash first, which ought to extract more sugar than the recirculating already sugar-rich water. Plus, it allows you to use hotter water for the sparge, which ought to help extract more sugars and stop the enzymatic processes on schedule.

Before worrying about whether to get the PID or not, are you certain that the bucket is suitable for mashing? Reason I ask has to do with heat distribution. I presume this bucket isn't insulated, so it will require a decent amount of heat from the element to keep it at temp. All but the thinnest mashes won't "churn" themselves when heated, so regular stirring will be required to keep the grains near the heating element from getting too hot. It doesn't mean that you can't mash with the bucket, it will just require frequent attention. So if you're going to be there every 5 minutes to stir it up, then you'll also be there to adjust the heat control knob to keep the mash on temp. That means that the PID control would just be redundant, as long as you have a half-decent idea of how adjust the heat yourself and the willingness to check it a dozen times an hour.

Or if you insulate the bucket well enough, then you wouldn't need much, if any heat added during the mash. In which case the PID still doesn't seem justified.

You mention recirculating. If that means you have a pump, then by all means, recirc during the whole mash to keep the heat distributed. In that case, a PID makes sense as it allows you to just set it and walk away for an hour.

I'm curious to see how it goes!
PMowdes
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by PMowdes »

PID will give you much better temperture control as any energy input is proportional. It will stop the temperature from swinging too wildly and over shooting your set point.

If you are using it for boiling there is no point using PID, if you want it for HLT / RIMS / HERMS then there is a benefit.
60 percent of the time it works every time.
monty1
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by monty1 »

I think I'll go for the basic non-pid boiler and continue to mash in my cool box rather than trying to do it all in one vessel. I'll be able to do full volume mash and boil at last and I'll invest in coil chiller too. Any suggetsions on temperature settings for the boil ? Roll on payday so I can update my brewery!
PMowdes
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by PMowdes »

monty1 wrote:I think I'll go for the basic non-pid boiler and continue to mash in my cool box rather than trying to do it all in one vessel. I'll be able to do full volume mash and boil at last and I'll invest in coil chiller too. Any suggetsions on temperature settings for the boil ? Roll on payday so I can update my brewery!
I would suggest 100 degrees for your boil ;) .

In all seriousness tho turn your boiler all the way up, you want a good rolling boil, not so vigorous that it is likely to boil over, or too tame that you don't isomerise the alpha acids which achieve bitterness.
60 percent of the time it works every time.
KevinS
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by KevinS »

I once looked into this very issue, in the end there seemed to be a number of positive and negatives. One of the key concerns I heard mentioned was whether the water would actually recirculate very well, or if it would fine the easiest path - which may not be via the grains. Many people noted that expensive setups such as the Braumeister (http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/) have a very specific setup when it comes to recirculating the mash.

If you want to get everything out of your grains, then I think EckersKlein has outlined a good approach.

If you are looking to upsize though, 40 litre buffalo boilers are currently on sale for £95 - For an extra £20 you get a stainless steel boiler.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-Manual- ... uffalo+40l

If you were doing full volume BIAB, you could get 21 litres of 5% beer, or 18 litres for a 6% beer.
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steve crawshaw
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by steve crawshaw »

KevinS wrote:
If you are looking to upsize though, 40 litre buffalo boilers are currently on sale for £95 - For an extra £20 you get a stainless steel boiler.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-Manual- ... uffalo+40l

If you were doing full volume BIAB, you could get 21 litres of 5% beer, or 18 litres for a 6% beer.
just gone back up to £199!! /sadface
I like to keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy.
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I_used_to_brew
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by I_used_to_brew »

KevinS
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by KevinS »

Still available on the nisbets site. 95.99 including VAT:
http://www.nisbets.co.uk/buffalo-manual ... il.raction
monty1
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Re: recirculating water for sparge

Post by monty1 »

Thanks for the heads up on those boilers - i'd much prefer stainless steel to plastic so will definitely have a look at those. What about fitting a hop strainer to that bufallo, is it a standard tap?

I think i won't go for recirculation, i don't want to add a pump into my setup at the moment and I think fresh water will be better. I imagine there's a limit to the sugar that water can take on and at some point it will stop absorbing.

Edit: bought the bufallo and the replacement temperature dial. Was too good an offer to miss, ended up spending only a tenner more than on the plastic electrim bin. I presume the tap on that boiler will be ok, I must be able to find some hosing that will fit. Will probably just use hop bags if i can't get a strainer fitted.
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