Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

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EckersKlein
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Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by EckersKlein »

Here's my first go at a Belgian dark strong ale. My aim was to get something that resembled a Westvleteren 12, or at least just end up with something drinkable. The biggest flavor contributors of the Westy seemed to be not the yeast, but the candy sugars. Just my opinion, but I decided to roll with it. I haven't had much trouble getting light candy sugar to work, at least with some previous wit beers, so I proceeded to have a go at the dark stuff too.

Well, it turns out that's quite a lot harder than I expected. I had a few variables to play around with:
  • How long to boil the sugar for.
    How hot to boil, and what peak temperature would be obtained.
    What catalysts would be added.
In general, longer, hotter boils yielded darker colors, but not my much. Meanwhile, the raison and plum flavors weren't coming through, even with 2hr+ boils. It soon became clear that a catalyst was going to be necessary to jump-start the Maillard reactions that make dark candy dark. I had some di-ammonium phosphate yeast nutrient on hand, and ended up doing a similar test matrix as what this guy did. In the end, I settled upon a blend of treacle, yeast nutrient, and citric acid that resulted in a decent (but not great) raison flavor. Just to be sure, I ordered a package of dark candy sugar from the Malt Miller to see what the pros can do.
When the brew day came around, I sampled the commercial candy sugar. It was much more complex than my own goop, tasting of raisons, plums, caramel, and maybe a hint of chocolate. I demoted my own candy sugar to the bin and went ahead with the brew...

The Mash:
  • 70% Dingemans belgain pils
    6% crystal
    3% special B
    2% aromatic malt.
    1% chocolate
    Mashed at 68C for 1hr
Additional fermentables added at boil:
  • 12% dark candy sugar (the commercial stuff)
    6% light candy sugar
The Boil:
  • Total boil time: 2hrs
    50g Styrian Golding for 60m
    50g Hallertau for 10m
The Fermentation:
  • White Labs WLP-530 fermented at near-constant 20C. No temperature ramping.
    Yeast tended to trap itself atop the krausen, daily shaking was necessary to keep fermentation moving.
    Heavy acetaldehyde flavor for first two weeks of fermentation, which mostly cleared thereafter, leaving behind a nice raisin and plum flavor.
    By bottling time (3 weeks after pitching), an interesting off-flavor emerged. I can describe it as a cross between being lightstruck and general oxidization. Hopefully it clears up over time.
Overall Stats:
  • OG: 1.085
    FG: 1.016
    ABV: 9.43%
    Brew length: 19.5L
Bottled Oct 13, so we'll see what the march of time can do to this one.
Capn Ahab
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by Capn Ahab »

I also came across that Ryan brews article recently as I was also thinking about making a dark strong (inspired by Steve's effort) and planned to make my own candy syrup. I ended up buying pickling lime as that was what worked best in his experiments. I also bought the pro stuff from the malt Miller as back up...
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steve crawshaw
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by steve crawshaw »

Interesting. good experimentation. I was going for the raisin \ plum flavour in my delirium bristolian

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1123

along the lined of delirium nocturnum. I don't think I hit it, but its a nice beer anyway. I've steered clear of the commercial candi sugar as stan hieronymus says it makes no difference, but maybe i should give it a go. I also fermented hotter at 22 - 23C. I pitched 2L of wort and bottled with nottingham yeast. I would always do this in future with a strong beer, it really seems to help. The primary yeast is pretty knackered after surviving in a >8% ABV environment.

I will be really interested to taste your beer, hope you can bring to BCB..

cheers
steve
I like to keep a bottle of stimulant handy in case I see a snake, which I also keep handy.
PMowdes
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by PMowdes »

Read brew like a monk.

It doesn't tell you exactly how to make it but it gives you a good steer.

The candy sugar only makes up a percentage if the fermentables (from memory only around 10%).

I think the trick is with the yeast, apparently they ferment the lower gravity beers first, reusing the yeast, then pitch into the XII. Temp starts at 18 but is allowed to do what it wants, even getting up to 28 (not sure at what stage though).

I've been lucky enough to try it a few times and it is a great beer. Very complicated taste, and noticably boozy.

As for candy sugar I've seen it made with plain white sugar, water and citric acid. The colour develops the longer you cook it.

I'd be interested to see how you get on, was gonna try a few belgians myself once I've worked through some more to my American hops.
60 percent of the time it works every time.
PMowdes
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by PMowdes »

So brew like a monk reckons Westy XII finishes at 1.013 and is 86% apparent attenuation. The bottle cap I have says its 10.2%. They use Westmalle yeast. 79ebc and 38ibu. Pale & pilsner malt, northern brewer, hallertau, styrian holdings. Sucrose and caramelized sugar. Bottle conditioned with top cropped primary yeast.. ferment starts at 20 and rises to 28.
60 percent of the time it works every time.
PMowdes
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by PMowdes »

Eric, I'm interested in the following comment


"It soon became clear that a catalyst was going to be necessary to jump-start the Maillard reactions that make dark candy dark"

It's my understanding that Malliard reactions occur between amino acids and reducing sugars, and if i'm not mistaken there is no amino acid present in your sugar solution.

Wiki says the following about candi sugar

"Candi sugar is a Belgian sugar commonly used in brewing, especially in stronger, Belgian beers such as dubbel and tripel. Chemically, it is an invert sugar: one that has been converted from sucrose to a mixture of fructose and glucose by heating with water and some acid (usually citric acid)"

I think making your own is easy enough so long as you use the right amount of Citric acid and you keep an eye on the temperature. I'd also get your hands on a Jam making thermometer to keep an eye on the temperature as it can go above 100 degrees C.

I found a video for making it once, i'll have a look to see if i can find it.
60 percent of the time it works every time.
PMowdes
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by PMowdes »

Eric

Try this

http://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/ ... ndi-sugar/

Seems that the temperature is critical!!
60 percent of the time it works every time.
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EckersKlein
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by EckersKlein »

PMowdes wrote: It's my understanding that Malliard reactions occur between amino acids and reducing sugars, and if i'm not mistaken there is no amino acid present in your sugar solution.
The amino acid is derived from the yeast nutrient. I suppose I was using the word "catalyst" incorrectly back in my first post. The di-ammonium phosphate (DAP) yeast nutrient is really just a reactant, it provides the nitrogen needed to form amino acids, which then go on to react with the sugars to make all sorts of fun flavor compounds. Unfortunately, most yeast nutrients contain lots of stuff other than DAP, so it can be difficult to compare results unless you are consistent about which brand you use.

Most of the internet "how to make candy sugar" articles, including your link, only cover light candy sugar. The dark stuff is a whole different ballgame, and as far as I can find out, can't be made without the use of additional reactants beyond the usual sugar, water, and citric acid. I think with some better control of ingredients, more patience, and a more organized test program, I could probably pull off a decent batch of the dark stuff, but since the stuff isn't too expensive to begin with, I'm not too motivated to pursue it further.

If anyone has had real success making dark candy sugar, I'd be interested to see how it was done, and of course what it tastes like.

Light candy sugar, on the other hand, is a piece of cake, and there's no reason why any of us can't make it ourselves.
PMowdes
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by PMowdes »

Diammonium phosphate is not and will not produce amino acids in hot sugar solution.

It is true that Yeast use it to produce amino acids (and then proteins) but since you have no yeast in your system there can be no amino acid production. If anything using an alkaline ammonium phosphate will prevent acid hydrolysis from occuring (maybe why you aren't getting the right conversion) , Try usingcitric acid, lemon juice, cream of tartar (tartaric acid) or even vinegar

The whole point of candi sugar is that you take glucose and split it under acidic conditions (acid hydrolysis) to produce fructose and glucose (the two component monosaccharides of Sucrose).

Yeast do this naturally through the use of the enzyme invertase. By doing this for the yeast i suppose they have to do less work and can concentrate on making the magical booze.

As for using candi sugar for anything other than dark belgian beer i wouldn't bother, normal white sugar or dextrose would work just as well.
60 percent of the time it works every time.
timstaley
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Re: Holy Heifer Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Post by timstaley »

I add the sugars halfway through the ferment as the yeast are well able to cope with the gravity by then.
I forget where I picked that tip up tho!
Just boil the sugars to sanitise then tip in the fermenter after cooling
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