Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

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disasterjustavoided
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Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by disasterjustavoided »

Wondering if anyone can clear up a source of confusion. I've been thinking about the problem of classification of beers and wondering why sites like beer advocate, the brewer of a beer and often beer bloggers/writers might all come up with different categories for beers. Landlord being a good example a pale ale on the bottle, yet often classed as a bitter.

...and speaking of just UK beers, is there any difference between a blond(e) and a golden ale? According to the Oxford Companion to beer there isn't. I must admit I'm often hard pushed to find a real difference either. I guess the only time it really matters is for competitions? In which case are there any plans to change the rules to a more British based classification system that acknowledges these subtle differences or is the American classification doing a decent job and if so would if I brewed a blond/golden ale could it fit in more than one category?
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Taz Ales
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by Taz Ales »

Landlord is both a Bitter and a Pale Ale, since Bitter is just a type of Pale ale.

I think part of the problem is that some people are referring to the colour of the beer, rather than the style. A good example of this is the more recent innovation of the Black IPA. It's controversial because many people debate that it can't be a pale ale if it's dark, but really the term IPA describes the flavour and aroma characteristics, more than the actual colour of the beer. The biggest problem with the IPA style is not colour, it's those bloody awful 3.8% beers with fuck all hop character being called IPA that really take the piss... in fact that's what Greene King tastes of, come to think of it.

Some beers naturally span two or more styles, because there can never a clear cut line between them. Styles overlap, and quite rightly so.

One other point... some beer bloggers, journalists, and even a few head brewers don't really know what they're talking about. Just because somebody declares themselves a world authority on the subject of beer, doesn't necessarily mean they are.
Taz... or Chris. It's up to you.
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I_used_to_brew
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by I_used_to_brew »

I agree with Taz. Greene King IPA is shite.
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Bimster
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by Bimster »

Taz Ales wrote: It's controversial because many people debate that it can't be a pale ale if it's dark, but really the term IPA describes the flavour and aroma characteristics, more than the actual colour of the beer.
I guess this could also fit (very tenuously) with the whole unfined/cloudy beer discussions. Drink with your sense of smell and taste not your eyes.

Agree with both Taz and Roger, Greene King IPA is made of both Piss and Shit.
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I_used_to_brew
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by I_used_to_brew »

Bimster wrote:
Taz Ales wrote: It's controversial because many people debate that it can't be a pale ale if it's dark, but really the term IPA describes the flavour and aroma characteristics, more than the actual colour of the beer.
I guess this could also fit (very tenuously) with the whole unfined/cloudy beer discussions. Drink with your sense of smell and taste not your eyes.
A good point, which also makes a black IPA irrelevant surely? (Wasn't the first black IPA simply coloured with Sinamar just to make an IPA black.)
disasterjustavoided
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by disasterjustavoided »

Taz Ales wrote: One other point... some beer bloggers, journalists, and even a few head brewers don't really know what they're talking about. Just because somebody declares themselves a world authority on the subject of beer, doesn't necessarily mean they are.
... and I think this might be the main point really too!

I've tried a white Stout (Durham), a 6% Mild (Sarah Hughes) and black golden beer (Black gold, Kent) which all make a mockery of the style guide. Also, there seems to be a move towards heavily hopped lagers, William Bros Ceaser and Waen LLager spring to mind actually Californian commons or is a new category being created? As for black IPA, doesn't the PA stand for er, em... (nah forget it).

.....mind you are quite right too that none of those are a patch on what Greene King try and pass off as an IPA. Incidentally, I think the its "dry hopped" with shit and that is why you get such a shit aroma interwoven with a bed of toasted piss.

As for cloudy beer, well that is a different matter altogether. Personally, as long as it tastes of something I really don't give a hoot about its clarity.
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Taz Ales
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by Taz Ales »

I probably drifted from my point a little.

The point I was trying to make is that some people will call a beer blonde or pale, but rather than referring to the style they're actually describing the colour. In these instances it's probably down to vocabulary, and better descriptives might be straw or pale yellow. It's not ideal that some styles are named after the usual colour, thus confusing the issue or limiting the vocabulary which can be used to describe the colour of another beer.

As an example, the BJCP describe Blonde as American Blonde ale and some English Summer ales. But look around any supermarket and you'll find any number of French and Belgian lager-type beers described as Blonde on the label. Personally I think the breweries are referring to the light colour rather than a particular style, because it can be found on a wide variety off beers, some malty, some with more emphasis on corn and other adjuncts, and some which just taste like a chemistry experiment gone wrong.

So in summary, when a beer is labelled as Pale, Blonde, or Brown, take it with a pinch of salt, because it might not be referring to an actual style. The same can be said of terms such as "mild".

As for IPA... any brewer who sells a beer under 5% labelled as an IPA ought to be sent to the Gulags.
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alikocho
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Re: Blondes and golden ales the trouble with classification

Post by alikocho »

RogerP wrote:(Wasn't the first black IPA simply coloured with Sinamar just to make an IPA black.)
Nope. The first Black IPA is credited to Greg Noonan at the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington Vermont. The beer is called Blackwatch IPA. There's a recipe for it in Mitch Steele's book, and the colour is from chocolate malt. I've had the beer and it's ok, but no more than. Pizza Port's Black Lie is just an IPA with sinamar, but it's worth noting that Weyerman point out that Sinamar does give some flavour contribution.

Going back the the Blonde and Golden Ales thing - brewers, marketers and some beer bloggers decribe things in terms they expect the majority of the market to understand. Colour is a major factor in this, not least as people tend to expect certain things from certain colours of beer. Blonde and golden are just one of a range of colour descriptors. And I guess this was what Taz was saying. This brings up the issue of what is the purpose of the categorization - is it to communicate to a consumer what to expect with the bottle they are looking at in the shop, or is it to provide a common style description for the purpose of judging a competition. These serve quite different purposes and have quite different audiences.

Picking up Taz's point on the BJCP description - Blonde Ale is really described as American style, but one which some English summer ales were seen to fit into by the BJCP at the time of writing the 2008 style guidelines (go read that style descriptor carefully, and you'll see what they tell you about American Blonde Ales as 'gateway' beers). I can tell you, based on my inside knowledge, that there is a style guideline for British Golden Ales that will be added to the next BJCP revision. They are only guidelines, though, not absolutes.
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