I think the real points are:
What level of certain traits are acceptable?
Where are they acceptable?
And finally, just because they are identified as traits of certain styles, does that mean that they have to be pleasant.
On Diacetyl I'd advise listening to Dr Chalie Bamforth (Professor of Brewing Science) in the linked podcast:
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2012/01/2 ... odcast-31/
Fullers ESB
Re: Fullers ESB
Ali
BJCP National Judge
BJCP Assistant Regional Director (North-East/Europe)
American Homebrewers' Association International Subcommittee
Organizer, National Homebrew Competition
CBA UK Competition and Training Coordinator
http://serenbrewing.com
BJCP National Judge
BJCP Assistant Regional Director (North-East/Europe)
American Homebrewers' Association International Subcommittee
Organizer, National Homebrew Competition
CBA UK Competition and Training Coordinator
http://serenbrewing.com
Re: Fullers ESB
Diacetyl in a pasteurised bottled beer is, in my opinion, a MASSIVE fail, as the beer has obviously been bottled too soon. I'll accept that it may be present in cask conditioned beers, as they develop over time, even though I don't like it. I'd still suggest that a cask that shows diacetyl may have been sent out too early by the brewery, but then I'm aware that it sometimes comes down to economics and space for brewers.
The main point for me is that diacetyl masks beer flavour, and therefore is a flaw. I know the BJCP style guidelines say that it is acceptable in British beers, but those are judging criteria, not qualitative analysis. I wonder whether a better educated population of beer drinkers will start to be more discerning about points like these.
Real Ale has come a long way since the 70's, and the sheer number of quality beers without flaws on offer may leave larger established regional brewers with some catching up to do. It's not my place to offer marketing or brewing advice to Fullers (though I might chat to John Keeling about it over a beer at the National if he shows up), but I am interested in whether the trend towards better beer is real or in my head.
As for beers acceptable to my palate, don't worry there are loads :-)
The main point for me is that diacetyl masks beer flavour, and therefore is a flaw. I know the BJCP style guidelines say that it is acceptable in British beers, but those are judging criteria, not qualitative analysis. I wonder whether a better educated population of beer drinkers will start to be more discerning about points like these.
Real Ale has come a long way since the 70's, and the sheer number of quality beers without flaws on offer may leave larger established regional brewers with some catching up to do. It's not my place to offer marketing or brewing advice to Fullers (though I might chat to John Keeling about it over a beer at the National if he shows up), but I am interested in whether the trend towards better beer is real or in my head.
As for beers acceptable to my palate, don't worry there are loads :-)
Eat sh*t or die trying
Re: Fullers ESB
The trend towards better beer is real in the Craft Beer market. Mass market beer (Real Ale or otherwise) may not change. Some people actually like the flaws, and they've become part of the brand in many cases.Capn Ahab wrote: I am interested in whether the trend towards better beer is real or in my head.
It is worth thinking about how some things just don't work well together, some things that clash, and some things hidden by other characteristics.
Ali
BJCP National Judge
BJCP Assistant Regional Director (North-East/Europe)
American Homebrewers' Association International Subcommittee
Organizer, National Homebrew Competition
CBA UK Competition and Training Coordinator
http://serenbrewing.com
BJCP National Judge
BJCP Assistant Regional Director (North-East/Europe)
American Homebrewers' Association International Subcommittee
Organizer, National Homebrew Competition
CBA UK Competition and Training Coordinator
http://serenbrewing.com
- I_used_to_brew
- Posts: 2356
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:06 pm
Re: Fullers ESB
Had a few draught pints of ESB on Sunday (in between raging bouts of hayfever*) and I see what you're on about Mark, but I still think it's a lovely pint.
*Tree pollen before you ask
*Tree pollen before you ask